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Topic: Severe worm infestation in goats..  (Read 10158 times)
imalilbirdie
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« on: July 24, 2008, 01:56:47 PM »

No not mine..I'm remembering that I read somewhere at some time, that when and if you worm a severely infested goat, and kill the worms off too quickly you can cause serious illness and even death...however, please help me with my memory..I can't remember where I read that at, and I can't remember the reason why this happens.

Do any of you all remember where this was at? Or why it happened?
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~ Birdie ~
minigi
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Our first bottlebaby, Lily Bean!


« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 02:01:40 PM »

This may not be what you're thinking of, but I know I've read on a vet site that goats actually do need some worms because the action of the worms helps the bacteria in the rumen to function properly I believe.  So a worm free goat is a very sick one. 
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 02:14:03 PM »

I'd never read that..that would be interesting to research and see what that's all about though..thanks for bringing that up. Smiley
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~ Birdie ~
Nanny K
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 03:35:51 PM »

Birdie- Wish I could help you. I don't remember reading anything like that on here, but of course I haven't been on that long. Are you sure it wasn't on GW?I would think worming a severly infested goat maybe might deplete it's system too fast?(I've never dealt with worms before)Give electrolytes,oatmeal with molasses, maybe some redcell,yogurt or probios?Anyway, good luck.

Nanny K
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chocchip
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 03:53:51 PM »

Severe lung worm infestations will cause death if wormer is giving in too large of doses at once instead of small doses. The spontaneous release of large amounts of worms basically causes the goat to drown in the worms and blood.  I read that in my goat vet book.  I do not however remember what it says about stomach worms in such a situation, but I too seem to have read the same thing as you somewhere.  I am going to take a look at my book and see what it says.
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needs to know more
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2008, 04:39:38 PM »

Other than what chocchip wrote, I had never heard that in goats. I can see it being a problem with lung worms. It is horses that you have to be careful with on worming. If they are infested and you worm heavily they will become plugged/impacted, something like that. It has been a long time!!!!!! 
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 05:02:23 PM »

Birdie- Wish I could help you. I don't remember reading anything like that on here, but of course I haven't been on that long. Are you sure it wasn't on GW?I would think worming a severly infested goat maybe might deplete it's system too fast?(I've never dealt with worms before)Give electrolytes,oatmeal with molasses, maybe some redcell,yogurt or probios?Anyway, good luck.

Nanny K

Yes, Nanny..I do believe I read that in GW..boy it's been a long time ago though..I can not for the life of me place it..it seems that maybe I might have also read it in a Vet Book somewhere, but not the one I have..as it's not in there, at least with the stomach worm part. 

Severe lung worm infestations will cause death if wormer is giving in too large of doses at once instead of small doses. The spontaneous release of large amounts of worms basically causes the goat to drown in the worms and blood.  I read that in my goat vet book.  I do not however remember what it says about stomach worms in such a situation, but I too seem to have read the same thing as you somewhere.  I am going to take a look at my book and see what it says.

ChocChip, maybe it is just the lung worm that I'm remembering..but something tells me it's not..I just can't put my finger on it right now.  I can't seem to find it either..somewhere and it's been a long time ago, I read that removing stomach worms in a severely infested goat will cause illness and even death if removed too quickly..I know a heavy dose of chemical wormer (even when needed) can and will do damages to the Liver..even if it does kill the worms off, damages to the liver can be done and are irreversable..but that's not it either..I wish I could put my finger on this..I know I've seen it/read it somewhere. 

gosh its bad getting old!! losing my memory here..dog gone it.  I need that information too..wouldn't it figure?
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 05:09:32 PM »

I know it happens with dogs and heart worm. If they kill all the adult worms to quickly, the will plug up the veins and heart and kill the dog thru a massive heart attack or stroke.

I can see where a massive kill off of worms could cause an impaction or shock the system when the dead worms start to decompose and send poison into the system.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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Southern Louisiana


« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2008, 05:15:44 PM »

I know it happens with dogs and heart worm. If they kill all the adult worms to quickly, the will plug up the veins and heart and kill the dog thru a massive heart attack or stroke.

I can see where a massive kill off of worms could cause an impaction or shock the system when the dead worms start to decompose and send poison into the system.

"[I can see where a massive kill off of worms could cause an impaction or shock the system when the dead worms start to decompose and send poison into the system."

Maybe this is what I'm thinking..maybe it was just posted in GW as a possibility that it would happen.. it does stand to reason that it would cause complications..however, I would really like factual data to back up what I am figuring makes sense.  Ya know?

I remember that being said about dogs and heartworms as well.
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~ Birdie ~
Galavanting Goats
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2008, 06:55:13 PM »

Birdie, when I had the rescue I remember being told to worm the goat first before giving it a specific worming tablet a couple of days later, that way it wouldn't cause severe tapeworm impaction (I think that's the word) when the tapeworm was being passed. The normal wormers were not killing/removing all the tapeworm for the 2 weeks we had already had miracle in our care but once we gave her the tablet, within 24 hours the tapeworm was passed and i'm glad that I had wormed her before giving her the tablet because the amount that came out of her made my jaw drop and wanna cry so I can only imagine how much would have come out without giving her the wormer first.
Daisy (not our recent doe, Miss Daisy) also went through the same thing.
 Both girls picked up tremendously after that. Not sure if that helps or not.
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2008, 08:13:50 PM »

GG that's exactly what's happening..

Now, I know that it's not good what's happening, (not to me or my goats--someone else)..now GG answer me this..when you wormed with the first wormer, it was a wormer like our dectomax/ivomec/cydectin (stronger chemical wormer), and then came back with something like our safeguard/panacur a few days later?  Did this cause diarrhea, and the goats to go down?  Then even cause death? 

See this is what I'm trying to figure out..worming with a chemical and then coming back with a strong dose of panacur..causing diarrhea that is shedding lots of tape/pin/hook worms and then the goat dies shortly afterwards.

See, somewhere I read that if you kill them off too quickly, it will cause illness and even death, but I don't know where it was that I read that or saw that and that info would come in so handy now..I wish when I saw that, years ago, I would have printed that off.  Lord knows I printed everything else off but not that.  Go figure, now here 5 yrs later I need it and can't find it. Sad
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~ Birdie ~
Galavanting Goats
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2008, 09:16:26 PM »

Hi Birdie, bare with me while I try to remember all the details.

 With Miracle I don't recall the wormer I used on her, I just remember she would have the tapeworm segments in her poop (at that time she was scourring for about 1 1/2 weeks and then in the last 3 days it became dog poop). This happened before I gave her the tablet She was severely aneamic. then I gave her a dog wormer tablet called Droncit suggested by a goat owner here in Aussie, I checked with the vet and he said yes but I was to give her two because the wormer was not removing the tapeworm like it should have. I was told by someone that with alot of the wormers here that they will kill the body of the tapeworm but not the head, the head will stay embedded into the intestine? and will reform(sorry I don't know much about the tapeworm habits) which explained why only the small segments were only being released apparently. After giving her the Droncit tablet, within 24 hours she past different stages of tapeworm in a large number (not sure if you remeber on GW the pics I posted of the poop/tapeworms, i'll try find them for people for future reference) after that no tapeworm was expelled, within 2 days she had berries and picked up in health immensly, even her iron levils picked up.

Daisy: was very similar in situation but this time I remember using a new wormer called Q-DRENCH, I love this wormer to pieces and have nothing but good things to say about it. It was a white colour and the goats hated it, would behave like they were dying/choking when recieving it. two days later (I think it was) I gave 1 Droncit tablet to her as a back up a and yep, within 24 hours, out came the tapeworm in all different stages. I could have not given her the tablet however bith Miracle and Daisy were extreme cases of neglect and worm infestation and time was against us to pull them both through. We have 3 main wormers here that are used in and around the surrounding suburbs (Cydectin, Panacure and another that I cannot remember the name of) and unfortunately overuse is a huge problem. The less useful wormers are o.k. to use but not very efficient on all worms.

The couple we purchased Miss Mary and Miss Daisy, had a devastating problem with brown stomach worms, no matter what they did the goats were dying left right and centre that was why we eneded up with the two girls. Both had wormy tummies -(no fault of the previous owners) we did notice Miss Daisy had tapeworm segment so I gave her some wormer I had on hand as we had been trying to get hold of the Q-Drench, we did likewise to mary also, after that we no longer noticed the tapeworm segments and both girls lost the worm bellies.

I only ever use the Droncit tablets in severe cases or if all else fails, we have never experianced any adverse effects by doing so and has only ever improved and benefitted the goats. I have never used it on a pregnant dow and would not choose to do so unless checking with the vet first.

Oh Birdie, I just read recently about scouring after worming, i'll go see if I can find where I saw it. I do remeber it saying to be careful because it could be too much on the goats system. If I can find it I will post the link for you.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 10:16:00 PM by Galavanting Goats » Logged
Galavanting Goats
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Posts: 1463



« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 10:27:29 PM »

Still looking Birdie, tis driving me nutso cause i'm sure I read something similar when Treakle was scourring. I also remember telling a lady just recently about it cause shortly after worming two of her goats, one died and I suspect the other is just passed.

I think I found something.

First link is a reply to a questin regarding sickness after worming:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Goats-3480/2008/5/sick-goat.htm

Second link shows a pic called "Bleeding out" after worming too quickly in a worm infested goat, it's the fourth pick down on the left with the internal organs and the bleeding.

http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=27

Not the artical I was thinking of but stumbled accross it. Hope it helps.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 10:48:54 PM by Galavanting Goats » Logged
imalilbirdie
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Southern Louisiana


« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2008, 03:05:02 AM »

Ok that does help..thank you for those links..now to figure out if this is what is actually happening.  Thanks tons GG. Smiley
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~ Birdie ~
chocchip
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2008, 11:33:46 AM »

Okay- I have to just correct myself here  Embarrassed  I read the parasite section of my book THREE times and did not find reference to this nor to what I said about the lung worms that I thought I read in there!!!!!  I really thought I was losing my mind, so I surfed the web a bunch and I think I found it!!!!  On IDGR's web site there is an article called  " OBSERVATIONS ON GOAT PARASITES AND THEIR CONTROL"  - it is in about the 12th paragraph down and the first sentence starts with "If you have a goat with a chronic cough, and no other symptoms"
It goes on to say the goat will bleed to death from detachment of large numbers of worms.  Here is the link:
http://www.goat-idgr.com/Default.aspx?tabid=93

Man- I guess I must have been doing so much research about these dang worms my sources got mixed up in my head   Embarrassed  Sorry about that.
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